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Perla Mageno
Disability: visually impaired
Represented by: the Manning Firm, Atty. Joseph Manning
Number of lawsuits filed: 600+
Targets: small restaurants, bakeries and coffee shops for purported website violations
As with most serial filers, Ms. Mageno alleges in each lawsuit (a verified complaint) that she is "a consumer who encountered multiple access barriers which denied her full and equal access to the ... Website." She further alleges that she wishes to access "a defendant’s goods and services," and that she is being "deterred from patronizing a defendant’s Website and brick- and-mortar locations on particular occasions." Her deposition testimony (under oath) reveals the opposite.
Is Ms. Mageno an advocate for the disabled or is she a profiteer? You be the judge. Examination by attorney Ara Sahelian:
___________
11 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Okay. Do you collect Social
16:10 12 Security Disability, Miss Mageno?
13 A. Yes, I do.
14 Q. Okay. Now in 2019, you sued a business called
15 Ahi Mahi. Do you recall that lawsuit?
16 A. I recollect the name, yes.
16:10 17 Q. Did you go back and order food from their
18 website?
19 A. I don't know. So long ago, I don't know.
20 Q. If you did, would it show on your credit card
21 records?
22 MR. HASHEMI: Calls for speculation.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
24 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: In 2019, if you were
16:11 25 ordering food online, would you be using credit cards?
92
.
1 A. No.
2 Q. What would you be using? Debit cards?
3 A. Debit card, yes.
4 Q. Okay. And would that be the same credit --
5 debit card, your Chase and your Bank of America?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Do you recall suing a restaurant called the
16:11 8 Chop Stop?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did you ever order food from the Chop Stop --
11 A. No.
12 Q. After -- I imagine you settled the case;
13 correct?
14 A. I don't recall.
15 MR. HASHEMI: Objection, calls for speculation.
16 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
17 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Okay. You remember suing
18 the Chop Stop; correct?
19 A. Yes.
16:12 20 Q. Do you remember settling with the Chop Stop?
21 A. I don't know.
22 Q. Do you remember going back and attempting to
23 place an order on their website after settling?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Do you remember going to the restaurant itself
93
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1 after settling the case?
2 A. No.
16:13 3 Q. In September of 2020 or thereabouts, you sued
4 Cuca's Mexican Restaurant? That's C-U-C-A apostrophe S.
5 Do you remember suing the restaurant?
6 A. Yes.
16:13 7 Q. Do you remember settling the case?
8 A. No, I don't.
9 Q. Did you ever go back and try to use their
10 website?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Did you --
13 A. I don't --
14 Q. -- go back to the physic --? I'm sorry?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Did you go back to the physical location ever?
17 A. No.
16:13 18 Q. In the year say 2020, in September again, you
19 sued Dulan's, that's D as in David U-L-A-N apostrophe S,
20 Soul Food Kitchen. Did you settle the case?
21 A. I -- yes, I did.
22 Q. Did you go back and use their website to order
23 food?
24 A. No.
16:14 25 Q. Did you ever go back to the physical
94
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1 restaurant and order -- and visit the physical location?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Did you sue a Fritzi Dog Restaurant?
4 A. I don't recall.
16:15 5 Q. Did you see a Hong Kong Diamond Bakery?
6 A. Hong Kong Diamond Bakery. I don't remember.
7 Q. Did you sue a King's Seafood?
8 A. I don't remember.
16:15 9 Q. Did you sue Cassidy's Corner Cafe?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Did you settle the case?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you try their website, see if you could
14 order food after settling?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Did you go to the physical location after
17 settling?
18 A. No.
16:16 19 Q. Did you sue an Old Time Baking Company --
20 strike that -- Old Town, T-O-W-N, Old Town Baking
21 Company?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did you settle the case?
24 A. I don't know.
25 Q. Have you tried to go back and use their
95
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1 website?
2 A. No.
16:16 3 Q. Have you been to their physical location?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Did you sue a Rocco's Deli Italiano?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you settle the case?
8 A. I don't know.
9 Q. Have you tried to go back to use their website
10 to order food?
11 A. No.
16:16 12 Q. Have you been to their physical location?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Have you sued a Sage Vegan Culver City
15 restaurant?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you settle the case?
18 A. Yes. I believe so.
19 Q. I'm sorry, what was your answer?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Have you gone back to and placed an order for
22 food?
23 A. No.
16:17 24 Q. Have you been to the physical location?
25 A. No.
96
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1 Q. Did you sue a South Philly Foods?
2 A. Excuse me?
3 Q. A South Philly?
4 A. South Philly?
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. S-O-U-T -- no, I don't believe I -- no.
16:17 7 Q. It's a Philadelphia cheesesteak restaurant in
8 Huntington Beach.
9 A. Oh, yes.
10 Q. Did you go back and try their website?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Have you been to the restaurant, physical
13 restaurant?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Strike that. That was a bad question. Have
16 you physically been present at the restaurant?
17 A. No.
16:18 18 Q. Did you sue a Trejos Tacos?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Did you settle the case?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Have you since tried to go to their website
23 and order food?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Have you been to the restaurant?
97
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1 A. No.
16:19 2 Q. Have you sued a LucaBella at the Walker House
3 restaurant?
4 A. I don't remember the name.
5 Q. Have you sued a 24 Carrots?
6 A. I don't remember.
16:19 7 Q. Have you sued a Chicken Dijon Restaurant?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Did you settle the case?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Have you since tried to order food online?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Have you visited the restaurant itself
14 physically?
15 A. No.
16:20 16 Q. Have you sued the PQ Newport Beach Bakery?
17 A. PQ?
18 Q. PQ, P as in Paul, Q as in Quebec.
19 A. No. I don't believe I have.
16:20 20 Q. Have you sued the Oke Poke Restaurant?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you settle the case?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Have you tried to use your -- their website
25 since?
98
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1 A. No.
2 Q. Did you visit the restaurant?
3 A. No.
16:21 4 Q. Have you sued a Rosti Tuscan Kitchen
5 Restaurant?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. R-O-S-T-I.
8 A. R-O-S --
9 Q. T-I?
10 A. -- T-I?
11 Q. Yes. Let me spell it again. R-O-S-T-I.
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you settle the case?
16:21 14 A. I don't know.
15 Q. Have you since tried to use their website to
16 order food?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Did you sue a Taco Mell, M-E-L-L?
21 A. Yes.
16:22 22 Q. Did you settle the case?
23 A. I don't know.
24 Q. Have you since gone back to try to order food
25 online?
99
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1 A. No.
2 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Did you sue a Hero Shop Restaurant?
16:22 5 A. Yes. Hero Shop Restaurant?
6 Q. Yes.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you settle the case?
9 A. I don't know if it was settled.
10 Q. Have you since gone back to attempt to order
11 food online?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Have you visited the physical location?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Did you sue a Mama's Restaurant?
16 A. Yes.
16:23 17 Q. Did you settle the case?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Have you since tried to go online to place an
20 order for food?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
23 A. No.
16:23 24 Q. Did you sue a Sunnin Bakery? That's S as in
25 Sam, U-N-N-I-N?
100
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did you settle the case?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Have you since tried to use their website to
5 order food?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
8 A. No.
16:23 9 Q. Have you sued a Tatsu Ramen? That's T as in
10 Tom A-T-S-U, R-A-M-E-N.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did you settle the case?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Have you since tried to order food online?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Have you visited the restaurant since?
17 A. No. No.
18 Q. Did you sue a Ballpark Pizza?
19 A. Yes.
16:24 20 Q. Did you settle the case?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Have you since tried to order food online?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
25 A. No.
1 Q. Did you sue a Kickin Kasian Restaurant?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you settle the case?
4 A. Yes.
16:24 5 Q. Have you since gone back to try to order food
6 online?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Did you sue a Poquito Mas Restaurant?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did you settle the case?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Have you since attempted to order food online?
15 A. No.
16:25 16 Q. Have you physically visited the restaurant?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Did you sue a Presto Pasta Valencia
19 restaurant?
20 A. I don't know if that was the location, but I
21 know it's Presto Pasta.
16:26 22 Q. Did you settle the case?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Have you since attempted to order food online?
25 A. No.
102
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1 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
2 A. Yes. No.
3 (Discussion between Mr. Hashemi and the
4 witness out of the hearing of the reporter.)
5 THE WITNESS: He's going to ask it.
6 MR. HASHEMI: Okay, let counsel ask another
7 question.
8 THE WITNESS: Okay.
9 MR. HASHEMI: And if there's an answer pending,
16:26 10 please answer, then we can take a break.
11 MR. SAHELIAN: All right. Let's take the break
12 right now because she seems like she needs a break. So
13 we'll take a break. Let me know when you're ready to go
14 back on the record.
15 MR. HASHEMI: Okay.
16 THE WITNESS: Okay.
16:32 17 (Recess.)
16:32 18 MR. SAHELIAN: Okay. Back on the record.
19 Q. Ms. Mageno, have you sued restaurant called
20 Zov's Bistro?
21 A. Can you repeat the first name?
16:32 22 Q. Z as in zebra, O-V as in Victor, apostrophe S
23 Bistro.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Did you settle the case?
103
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1 A. I -- I don't know.
2 Q. Have you since gone online to try to order
3 food?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Have you been physically present at any of
6 their restaurants?
7 A. No.
16:33 8 Q. How about Baja Lobster? Have you sued them?
9 A. Um --
10 Q. Baja Lobster of Newport Beach?
11 A. I don't -- I don't remember.
12 Q. Brent's, B-R-E-N-T apostrophe S?
16:33 13 A. Brent's, B-R-E-N-T-S?
14 Q. Sorry, let me spell it again. B as in boy,
15 R-E-N-T apostrophe S, Deli.
16 A. Um, yes.
17 Q. Did you settle the case?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Have you since tried to go online to order
20 food?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did you visit the restaurant?
23 A. No.
16:34 24 Q. Did you sue a Mancora Peruvian Cuisine?
25 A. Yes.
104
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1 Q. Did you settle the case?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Have you since tried to go online and place an
4 order for food?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Have you visited the restaurant itself?
7 A. No.
16:34 8 Q. Did you sue a Pop Pie Company Restaurant?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did you settle the case?
11 A. I don't remember.
12 Q. Have you since gone back to order food online?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Okay. So by now you're familiar with the four
16:35 17 questions that I'm asking. If you'd like, we'll shortcut
18 this. I'll just name the restaurant, you can tell me
19 whether you've been -- you can tell me whether you've
20 sued them, settled, been back to, ordered online or
21 physically visited the restaurant. I'll give you a
22 choice whether you want to do it that way or I can ask
23 the questions individually.
24 MR. HASHEMI: Well, may I inquire how many of these
25 you're going to go?
105
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16:35 1 MR. SAHELIAN: I don't know. I don't know yet,
2 Mr. Hashemi. I wish I did.
3 MR. HASHEMI: Okay. I think we're going to need to
4 ask each specific question because otherwise I'll be
5 waiving objections, and I don't think I'm comfortable
6 doing so with respect to this line of questioning.
7 MR. SAHELIAN: All right.
16:36 8 Q. So, Ms. Mageno, did you sue a Santa Monica
9 Seafood Restaurant?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Did you settle the case?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Have you since gone back and tried to order
14 food online?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
17 A. No.
16:36 18 Q. Did you sue a Best Pizza & Brew?
19 A. I don't remember.
20 Q. Street Churros.
21 A. Street Churros, yes.
22 Q. Did you settle the case?
23 A. Don't know.
24 Q. Have you since gone back to try to use their
25 website?
106
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1 A. No.
2 Q. Have you physically visited the restaurant?
3 A. No.
16:37 4 Q. Did you sue a Fuji Grill?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did you settle the case?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Have you since tried to use their website?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Did you sue an It's a Grind?
16:38 13 A. I don't know.
14 Q. Have you sued The Sandwich Spot?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Did you settle?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Have you since tried to use their website?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Did you visit the restaurant?
21 A. No.
16:38 22 Q. Did you sue a Creme San Diego?
23 A. Creme?
24 Q. C-R-E-M-E.
25 A. I don't know that was the location, but I
107
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1 heard the name Creme, yes.
2 Q. Okay. In your mind, where is Creme located?
3 A. I -- I don't remember.
4 Q. All right. Did you settle?
5 A. I don't remember.
16:38 6 Q. Have you tried to use their website since?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Wow, I just noticed you sued Il Fornaio.
11 That's my client. Have you sued --
12 A. Can you repeat?
13 Q. Il Fornaio, I-L F-O-R-N-A-I-O?
14 A. Yes.
16:39 15 Q. Okay. Did you settle?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Have you since tried to use their website?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Have you visited any of their restaurants?
20 A. No.
21 Q. All right. We'll do a couple more.
16:40 22 Have you sued the San Pedro Fish Market?
23 A. I don't remember.
24 Q. Have you sued The Press Espresso?
25 A. Yes.
108
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1 Q. Did you settle?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Have you since tried to use their website?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Have you physically visited the restaurant?
6 A. No.
16:40 7 Q. Or I should say the coffee shop?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did you sue Three Pickles & Subs & Sandwiches?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Did you settle?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Have you since tried to order online?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Or use their website?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
18 A. No.
16:41 19 Q. I'll make this the last one. Have you sued
20 Artisanal Expressions?
21 A. I don't -- I don't know.
22 Q. Have you sued the Seven Seas Roasting Company?
16:41 23 A. I don't know.
24 Q. Have you sued Pie for the People?
25 A. No.
109
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1 Q. Have you sued Kona Loa Three?
2 A. Kona Loa Three? No.
16:41 3 Q. How about just plain Kona Loa?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Did you settle?
6 A. I don't know.
7 Q. Have you since tried to use their website?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Have you visited the restaurant?
10 A. No.
11 Q. I'll make this the last one. Have you sued
16:42 12 4Fingers?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Jackboy's Dog Bakery, have you sued them?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Did you settle?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Have you since tried to use their website?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Did you visit the restaurant?
21 A. No.
22 MR. SAHELIAN: Let's take a five-minute break. Let
16:42 23 me collect my thoughts, Mr. Hashemi, and we may be close
24 to ending this deposition.
25 MR. HASHEMI: Sounds like a plan.
110
.
1 MR. SAHELIAN: Thank you.
16:51 2 (Recess.)
3 MR. SAHELIAN: We're just going to wrap this up.
4 MR. HASHEMI: Okay.
16:51 5 MR. SAHELIAN: Back on the record.
6 Q. Ms. Mageno, I thank you for your patience
7 today. How do you --? Let me ask you this question.
8 You know that in order to initiate a lawsuit you're
9 lawyers file a Complaint; correct?
16:51 10 A. Yes.
11 Q. I'm sorry, is that a yes?
12 A. Yes. Sorry, didn't you hear me? Yes.
13 Q. And you're able to read those Complaints?
14 A. I'm not able to read them. My screen reader
15 can read them.
16 Q. All right. Good. And do you make it a point
17 to read each Complaint that's filed on your behalf?
18 A. Yes.
16:52 19 Q. Do you pay attention to a particular section
20 or paragraph that's important to you?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Which paragraphs do you pay most attention to?
23 A. The one that for today was the background. Of
16:53 24 facts. Basically the facts. You hear me?
25 Q. Yeah, I'm reading. I'm reading the Complaint.
111
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16:53 1 A. Oh.
2 Q. Bear with me one moment. Now every time you
16:54 3 file one of these Complaints, you're asking a judge to
4 order that the website be made readable. Is that
5 correct?
6 A. Accessible? Not readable but accessible, yes.
7 Q. Accessible with JAWS; correct? Or readable
8 with JAWS?
9 MR. HASHEMI: Objection, argumentative.
16:54 10 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Well, let me rephrase it. I
11 want to keep your attorney very happy because he's
12 important. He's an important person to me. And he has a
13 point, so let me rephrase it.
14 When you file a Complaint, you're asking the
16:54 15 judge to issue an order for you; is that correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. You said yes; correct?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And when you're filing a lawsuit based on
20 denial of access in your ability to use a website, what
21 are you asking the judge specifically to do for you?
22 MR. HASHEMI: Objection, vague. You can answer. It
23 calls for a legal conclusion. You can answer the
24 question if you understand it.
25 MR. SAHELIAN: Well --
112
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1 THE WITNESS: I didn't understand it.
2 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Well, let me -- I'm sorry,
3 let me rephrase it. You're asking the courts to do
4 something for you by filing a lawsuit; correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What in plain English -- okay? -- no legal
16:55 7 mumbo jumbo. Okay? Plain English, what are you asking a
8 judge to do for you?
9 A. Asking him to make the website compliant where
10 a blind person could go on the website with a screen
11 reader and have the ability just as a person with vision
12 to make a order, as easily as --
13 Q. All right.
14 A. -- (simultaneous dialog).
15 Q. And very good, thank you. And in paragraph 9,
16:56 16 I will submit to you of the Complaint you filed against
17 Taco Rosa, you mentioned that you are a tester. Now, is
18 that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. In your mind, in your mind, what does it mean
21 to be a tester?
22 A. I'm an advocate for the blind. In my mind is
23 that with them -- me losing my eyesight, I have relatives
16:56 24 that lost their eyesight that are older than me. And in
25 my age, it was hard for me to adapt to the technology and
113
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1 the -- the website. But nowadays, that's all there is so
2 it's technology with sight.
3 Q. So in your mind again, could you tell me
4 everything that you can think of as far as what it means
16:57 5 to be a tester?
6 MR. HASHEMI: Calls for a legal conclusion, and you
7 can answer.
8 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: In your mind. I'm not
9 asking you for a legal conclusion. I'm saying what are
10 your impressions in your mind of what it means to be a
11 tester?
12 A. I'm changing the world for the next person
13 that becomes visually impaired or completely blind.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. Making it easy for them to be able to use the
16:58 16 website.
17 Q. So in your mind, what are the responsibilities
18 of a tester?
19 A. I don't understand the question.
20 Q. In other words, what are you doing in
21 furtherance of your advocacy as a tester?
16:58 22 A. Making sure that websites become compliant.
23 Q. All right. So we just went through a litany
24 of cases in which you filed suit and you settled.
25 Correct?
114
.
1 MR. HASHEMI: Objection, compound, and misstates
2 prior testimony. You can answer the question though.
3 THE WITNESS: Yes.
4 MR. SAHELIAN: Okay. Apparently your client
16:58 5 understood the question, Mr. Hashemi, but that's okay.
6 MR. HASHEMI: Are you implying that I'm unable to
7 understand your questions?
8 I'm kidding. Let's move on.
9 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: All right. So other than
10 filing a lawsuit, what else have you done to ensure that
11 the websites that you claim were not readable using JAWS
12 became readable?
16:59 13 MR. HASHEMI: Vague, and I'm not sure I understood
14 the question. Madam Reporter, may I ask that you read
15 the question back again, please.
16 (The record was read as follows:
16:59 17 "So other than filing a lawsuit, what else
18 have you done to ensure that the websites that
19 you claim were not readable using JAWS became
20 readable?")
16:59 21 MR. HASHEMI: Yeah, my objection is vague. You can
22 answer the question if you're able to.
17:00 23 THE WITNESS: I don't know what --. You know, I
24 don't know how to answer it.
25 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: If you don't know, you don't
115
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1 know.
2 A. Yeah. I don't know how to answer that
3 question.
4 Q. Okay. Aside from filing a lawsuit, do you
5 think it's the responsibility of a tester to follow
17:00 6 through and retest a website after the lawsuit has been
7 settled?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. All right. Let's go to paragraph 11 of this
10 Complaint, which I will submit to you reads as follows:
11 "Plaintiff is being deterred from
17:00 12 patronizing the defendant's website and brick
13 and mortar locations on particular occasions."
14 Okay? So let's take one phrase at the time
15 here. "Plaintiff is being deterred from patronizing the
16 defendant's website." What does that mean to you?
17 A. I don't understand the question. I don't
18 understand what you're saying. Can you repeat that?
19 Q. Sure. There's a paragraph 11 in the Complaint
17:01 20 in this action right here in this lawsuit that reads as
21 follows: "Plaintiff is being deterred from patronizing
22 the defendant's website." What does that mean to you if
23 anything?
24 A. I don't understand what that means.
25 Q. All right. In your mind, does that mean
116
.
1 anything to you? I'm not asking you for a legal
17:01 2 conclusion. I'm just asking you what in your mind does
3 that mean to you?
4 MR. HASHEMI: Counsel, I think she had a question
5 for you.
6 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I don't understand what deterred
7 means.
8 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Okay, that's fine. All
9 right. You also go on to say that, "Plaintiff is being
10 deterred from patronizing the brick and mortar
11 locations." Does that mean anything to you?
17:02 12 A. I don't understand what deter means.
13 MR. SAHELIAN: All right. Well, we'll leave it at
14 that. I have no further questions. Counsel, if you want
17:02 15 to ask your questions, go right ahead.
16 MR. HASHEMI: Thank you, counsel.
17 EXAMINATION
18 Q. BY MR. HASHEMI: Miss Mageno, is it your
19 custom and practice to give business to restaurants with
20 inaccessible websites?
21 A. No.
22 Q. What was that again?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Counsel asked you about whether -- about the
25 allegations of being deterred. When you encounter
117
.
17:03 1 websites, whether they be restaurants or other places of
2 public accommodation that offer products or services
3 through their website in conjunction with their brick and
4 mortar locations, when you go to a specific website and
5 you identify barriers such that impede your ability as a
17:03 6 visually impaired person to have full and equal access to
7 their website and the products that are then offered to
8 the public, do you make it a point to go back to that
9 website?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. When?
12 A. When I get -- after they settle, I get a
13 certain --
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. -- my agreement that states a certain length
16 of time.
17 Q. Okay, so just want to thank you for that
17:04 18 response. I'm going to interrupt your response and going
19 to invite you to continue, but I do not want you to
20 disclose any confidential provisions of any settlements
21 or any attorney-client communications. If you can answer
22 the question otherwise, please proceed.
23 A. Yes, I do go back to a website.
24 Q. Okay. How often do you go back to those
25 websites?
118
.
1 A. When the time is up in the agreement.
2 Q. What do you mean time is up?
17:04 3 A. How do I state this way? They set their --
4 their time is to fix the website, like maybe it could be
5 months, years.
6 Q. Okay. So generally you're saying that the
7 defendants are obligated to make their websites
8 accessible to the visually impaired; is that correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. So once that the deadline for that
11 obligation is triggered, is that when you go back to the
17:05 12 website?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. How often do you do that?
15 A. Every -- every time their website is due, I go
16 in.
17 Q. Okay. Very good. And is it your custom and
18 practice or other usual conduct to go back to websites
17:05 19 related to lawsuits to ensure that they have made the
20 corrections they were obligated to otherwise?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. That doesn't necessarily require you to
23 order food from those websites; would it? Does it?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Okay. And you aren't otherwise obligated to
119
.
1 go back and visit the brick and mortar location of
2 the --
17:06 3 MR. SAHELIAN: I'm going to object to this entire
4 line of questioning as leading. But, you know, you're
5 essentially testifying on her behalf. But it's so
6 obvious, Mr. Hashemi, that I'm going to let you do it
7 because any judge is going to see that you're asking
8 leading questions here. And you're basically --
9 MR. HASHEMI: Okay.
10 MR. SAHELIAN: -- not only coaching but you're
11 testifying on behalf of your client. But go ahead. Go
12 ahead. Continue.
13 MR. HASHEMI: Okay.
17:06 14 MR. SAHELIAN: You have all the time in the world to
15 testify on her behalf. Go ahead.
16 MR. HASHEMI: I respectfully disagree with your
17 assessment and your argument here, counsel, and the
18 record will speak for itself.
19 MR. SAHELIAN: Sure.
20 Q. BY MR. HASHEMI: That being said, counsel
21 asked you about, you know, maybe five, six dozen
22 different restaurants, restaurants and websites that were
23 related to lawsuits that were filed. You recall?
24 A. Yes.
17:07 25 Q. Okay. And have you -- or excuse me. Do you
120
.
1 intend to go back to every one of those, the websites
2 affiliated with those lawsuits to ensure compliance has
3 been adhered to?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. In other words, are you going -- do you go
6 back to those websites to ensure that the website is
7 compliant with the ADA?
8 A. Yes.
9 MR. HASHEMI: No further questions.
17:07 10 MR. SAHELIAN: All right. Well, you opened up a
11 whole can of worms, Mr. Hashemi. I was about to
12 terminate the deposition, but I'm afraid we're going to
13 have to keep going.
14 FURTHER EXAMINATION
15 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: So, Ms. Mageno, did you sue
16 a Win Bea Kin Restaurant?
17 A. I don't recall.
18 Q. Did you sue a Cypress Point Restaurant?
17:08 19 A. I don't recall.
20 Q. Did you sue Handlebar Coffee Roasters?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. Did you settle the case?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Have you gone back to try and order food or
25 products from --
121
.
1 A. No.
2 Q. -- company's website?
3 A. No.
17:08 4 Q. Have you visited the actual location?
5 A. No.
6 Q. And when exactly did you test the website, if
7 any?
8 A. I don't recall.
9 Q. Did you take notes if you -- strike that. If
10 you had tested the website for compliance, would you have
11 taken notes?
17:09 12 A. No. I don't know. I don't understand the
13 question you're --
14 Q. Well, let me ask you once again. After
15 settling with Handlebar Coffee, did you go back to test
16 the website?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Did you go back to test the website at any
19 time after filing suit?
20 A. No.
17:10 21 Q. Did you sue a Kean Coffee?
22 A. What is it? Can you spell it?
23 Q. Kean, K-E-A-N, Coffee.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Did you settle the case?
122
.
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did you at any time after filing suit go back
3 to their website and test it?
4 A. No.
17:10 5 Q. Did you at any time after filing the lawsuit
6 attempt to order food or products or services online?
7 A. Can you restate the question?
8 Q. Did you at any time after filing a lawsuit
9 against Kean Coffee go back and attempt to order anything
17:10 10 on their website?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Did you visit the actual restaurant?
13 A. No.
14 Q. At any time?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Okay. All right. So you sued a Chicago's
17 Pizza; correct?
18 A. Can you -- I couldn't hear you, I'm sorry.
17:11 19 Q. Did you sue a Chicago's Pizza?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did you at any time after suing Chicago's
22 Pizza go back and test the website?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did you at any time after suing Chicago's
25 Pizza attempt to use the website to place an order for
123
.
1 food?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Did you at any time after suing Chicago's
17:12 4 Pizza visit the actual restaurant?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Did you sue a Hummus Bean Restaurant?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you allege that their website was
9 inaccessible?
10 A. Can you repeat the question?
11 Q. Did you allege that their website was
12 inaccessible?
17:12 13 A. Inaccessible? Can you restate it, like
14 restate it, please?
15 Q. All right. Sure. So you reference in
16 reference to Hummus Bean, you said you sued them;
17 correct?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What did you sue them for?
20 A. Their website not being accessible.
21 Q. Did you at any time after suing them go back
17:12 22 and test the website to see if it had become accessible?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did you at any time after suing them attempt
25 to place an order to purchase a product or services?
124
.
1 A. No.
2 Q. Did you at any time after suing them visit the
3 physical location of the restaurant?
4 A. No.
17:13 5 Q. Did you sue a Pepperoni's Pizza?
6 A. I don't think so. No.
7 Q. Did you at any time sue Gloria Jean's Gourmet
8 Coffees?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did you at any time after suing them go online
17:13 11 and verify that their website had become accessible?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Did you at any time after suing them attempt
14 to place an order for food or services on their website?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Did you at any time after suing them visit the
17 coffee shop itself?
18 A. No.
17:14 19 Q. Did you sue an Erba, E-R-B-A, Markets?
20 A. Erba, I don't --. No. No.
21 Q. Did you see a California Cannabis Group?
17:14 22 A. I don't -- no, I don't know.
23 Q. That's California, cannabis is spelled C-a-
24 double-N-A-B-I-S.
25 A. Yes. Is it a dispensary?
125
.
1 Q. Yes.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. I'm sorry, is that a yes?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. Did you at any time after suing them go
17:15 6 back to verify that their website had been made
7 accessible to you?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did you at any time after suing them attempt
10 to place an order?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Online?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Did you at any time after suing them
17:15 15 physically visit one of their locations?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Did you sue a Kareem's Falafel.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did you at any time after suing them go back
20 online to verify compliance with --
21 A. No.
22 Q. -- the ADA?
23 MR. HASHEMI: Wait for him to finish his question.
24 THE WITNESS: Sorry. I'm sorry.
17:16 25 MR. HASHEMI: And then give a response. Do you need
126
.
1 to take a break?
2 THE WITNESS: I'm (inaudible).
3 MR. HASHEMI: Do you need to take a break? You seem
4 exhausted.
5 THE WITNESS: I am exhausted.
6 No.
7 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Well, this deposition would
8 have been over if your attorney had not asked a few
9 questions. But you can blame your attorney for this.
10 So --
11 MR. HASHEMI: I'd just like to --
12 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: -- would you like to take
13 a --
14 MR. HASHEMI: You're asking the same question over
17:16 15 and over again. They have absolutely -- that has
16 absolutely no relevance to the lawsuit. But if that's
17 how you want to spend your client's money, feel free.
18 MR. SAHELIAN: Well, what has relevance and does not
19 is up to the judge and not us attorneys to decide. So --
20 MR. HASHEMI: Go for it.
21 MR. SAHELIAN: -- does -- your client would like a
22 break?
23 THE WITNESS: No. No.
24 MR. SAHELIAN: I'm sorry, is that a yes or no, does
25 she need a break?
127
.
17:17 1 THE WITNESS: No. No.
2 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Okay. Did you sue a
3 Kareem's Falafel?
4 A. Can you repeat that, please?
5 Q. Kareem, K-A-R double-E-M-S.
6 A. I know, but can you repeat the question? I
7 didn't hear it all.
8 Q. I'm sorry, did you say you sued a Kareem's
9 Falafel or you did not?
17:17 10 A. I didn't hear your question is what I'm
11 stating, sir.
12 Q. Okay. I'm sorry, Kareem, K-A-R-E-E-M-S,
13 Falafel?
14 A. I -- I understand you're stating the company,
15 but I didn't hear the question you're asking me about
16 them.
17 Q. All right. Did you sue them?
18 A. Yes.
17:18 19 Q. What was the purpose of suing them?
20 A. Their website wasn't compliant.
21 Q. Have you since gone back to verify whether the
22 website has been made compliant in your mind?
23 MR. HASHEMI: Objection, vague.
24 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: All right. Have you since
17:18 25 filing the lawsuit gone back to verify if there were any
128
.
1 changes made to the website?
2 A. No.
3 MR. HASHEMI: All right. She needs to take a --
4 MR. SAHELIAN: I'm in the middle of a question,
5 Mr. Hashemi.
6 MR. HASHEMI: She hasn't started --.
7 Before you start a question, I asked you if
8 you need to take a break because it's just repetitive.
9 And I need a break so...
10 Would you mind taking a five-minute break?
11 MR. SAHELIAN: Not at all.
17:19 12 MR. HASHEMI: Thank you.
17:24 13 (Recess.)
14 MR. SAHELIAN: All right. We're going to go --.
15 I'm not going to torment you, even though you inflicted a
17:24 16 wound on yourself, but we're going to keep going a bit
17 more, and then we'll stop. Okay?
18 MR. HASHEMI: I have this much water until the next
19 break.
20 MR. SAHELIAN: All right. Back on the record.
17:25 21 Madam Court Reporter, what was my last question?
22 (The record was read as follows:
17:18 23 "Have you since filing the lawsuit gone back
17:18 24 to verify if there were any changes made to the
25 website?
129
.
1 "Answer. No.")
17:25 2 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Okay. And we're on Kareem's
3 Falafel right now. Have you since filing a lawsuit,
4 Ms. Mageno, attempted to order any food online from the
5 website?
17:26 6 A. From Kareem's website? No.
7 Q. Have you physically visited the restaurant?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did you sue a Two Fish Japanese Restaurant?
10 A. No.
17:26 11 Q. Did you sue a Drnk Coffee & Tea, Drnk spelled
12 D-R-N-K?
13 A. D-R-N-K. Drink? Yes.
14 Q. Thank you for correcting the pronunciation on
15 that. I thought it was drunk. Have you since checked to
17:26 16 see if their website has been made readable to you?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Have you since ordered anything off their
19 website?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Have you visited their location?
22 A. No.
23 MR. SAHELIAN: All right, Babak, I'm spare you the
24 aggravation. We'll end the deposition here.
25 MR. HASHEMI: No way.
130
.
1 FURTHER EXAMINATION
17:27 2 Q. BY MR. HASHEMI: Miss Mageno, all these names
3 that of restaurants and businesses that were subject of
4 lawsuits in the past, you intend on going back to every
5 one of those websites to ensure that they have made
6 themselves compliant and accessible by the client?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Okay. And when do you intend to do that?
17:27 9 A. When their time is up that they are given to
10 make it accessible.
11 Q. Okay. And that's part of the confidentiality
12 agreement; correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. And how do you know when their time to
15 remediate once their website has expired?
17:28 16 A. The attorneys will let me know.
17 THE REPORTER: I didn't understand the question.
18 (The record was read.)
19 MR. HASHEMI: Let me start that question over
20 because I don't know if it came through correctly.
21 Q. How do you know when the time has expired for
22 the websites to have completed remediation?
23 A. Attorneys let me know.
17:28 24 Q. Okay. So you rely on your attorneys to inform
25 you of that information?
131
.
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. And as you sit here today, have you
3 gone back to websites that were subject to prior suits to
4 ensure that they have remediated or otherwise become
5 compliant with the ADA?
6 A. Yes.
17:29 7 Q. Are you able to tell us how many occasions?
8 A. Can you repeat that?
9 Q. Are you able to tell us how many times you've
10 done so?
11 A. I -- I don't know.
12 Q. You don't. Is there a particular estimate you
13 can give me of the --
14 A. Maybe like 50?
17:30 15 Q. You've gone back to 50 percent?
16 A. No, 50 -- like maybe 50 websites.
17 Q. Okay. So you've gone back to 50 websites to
18 make sure they are compliant. Okay. Very good. Thank
19 you. Nothing further on my end.
20 FURTHER EXAMINATION
21 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: All right. So you say
22 you've gone back to 50 websites to ensure compliance with
23 the ADA; correct?
24 A. Yes.
17:30 25 Q. So you have filed in total how many web -- or
132
.
1 strike that. You've filed in total how many lawsuits in
2 the past five years?
3 A. I don't know.
4 Q. Would it be a number approaching 1,000?
5 A. I have no idea.
6 Q. Could it be 2,000?
7 A. I don't know.
17:30 8 Q. How far back do these lawsuits go that you've
9 filed?
10 MR. HASHEMI: Objection, vague.
11 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
12 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Did you start filing these
13 lawsuits in -- before the year 2015?
14 A. I -- I don't know.
17:31 15 Q. Have you used any other attorneys other than
16 the Manning Law Firm?
17 A. No.
18 Q. So you've indicated that of all the lawsuits
19 that you've filed, you've gone back to 50 to verify that
17:31 20 the websites are readable to you; is that correct?
21 A. I would say at least 50, yes.
22 Q. Okay. Now in terms of evidence, what evidence
23 do you have that you've done this?
24 MR. HASHEMI: I'm going to instruct the witness to
25 exclude any testimony that would disclose attorney-client
133
.
1 privileged information or attorney work product, but
17:32 2 otherwise you're free to answer.
3 THE WITNESS: I don't have evidence.
4 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: All right. Have you taken
5 any notes in any form of the work that you've done to
6 verify?
7 MR. HASHEMI: I'm going to ask the witness to
8 exclude any information -- any testimony that would
9 disclose attorney-client privileged communication. But
17:32 10 you're otherwise free to answer.
11 THE WITNESS: No.
12 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: So you've taken no notes at
13 all of having gone back to verify whether these websites
14 of businesses that you've sued have actually been changed
15 to make it readable to you? I should say to make them
16 readable to you?
17:33 17 MR. HASHEMI: Argumentative and vague.
18 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Is that correct?
19 A. I don't -- I don't understand the question,
20 sir. I don't understand what you're saying.
21 Q. All right. All right. So you testified a few
22 minutes ago that you have verified changes that have been
17:33 23 made to websites of companies that you have sued.
24 Correct?
25 A. (No audible response.)
134
.
1 Q. Is that a yes?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. What notes, evidence, do you have that
4 you've done this?
17:34 5 MR. HASHEMI: Counsel, I think my objection is going
6 to tell you what there is. So I'm going to instruct her
7 to exclude any attorney-client communications or attorney
8 work product that she's aware of from her answer.
9 So if you can do so and answer the question,
10 please proceed.
11 THE WITNESS: I can't answer the question.
12 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: You cannot answer the
13 question why?
14 A. I can't answer it.
17:35 15 Q. Why can't you answer the question? Do you
16 have any notes anywhere that you've kept for yourself or
17 anyone else?
18 A. No.
19 Q. If I asked you -- if I ask you to go back and
20 tell me which of the websites you've actually verified
21 that has been verified of compliance --? Let me rephrase
17:35 22 that. I don't think that was grammatically correct.
23 If I asked you to go back right now and to
24 tell me which of the websites you've reviewed for
25 compliance after filing lawsuit, would you be able to
135
.
1 tell me which?
17:35 2 A. I don't know if I can answer the question.
3 MR. HASHEMI: You can answer the question. If you
4 can answer the question without disclosing any attorney-
5 client privileged communication or divulging information
6 about work product done by your attorneys, you can answer
7 it. So if you can do it without -- and follow the
8 instruction that I've given you, then please answer the
9 question.
10 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question then,
11 please?
17:36 12 MR. SAHELIAN: I'm going to have the court reporter
13 reread it.
14 THE WITNESS: Okay. That's fine.
15 (The record was read as follows:
17:35 16 "If I asked you to go back right now and to
17 tell me which of the websites you've reviewed
18 for compliance after filing lawsuit, would you
19 be able to tell me which?")
17:36 20 MR. HASHEMI: Same instruction.
21 THE WITNESS: To answer it, I don't -- I don't think
22 I can.
23 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: When you are verifying to
17:37 24 see if a website is compliant and you're being thorough
25 going through the various pages, do you somehow take
136
.
17:37 1 notes for yourself?
2 A. No.
3 Q. How do you remember then specific problems on
4 a website if you don't take notes?
5 MR. HASHEMI: You can answer the question so long as
6 you exclude any attorney-client communication.
7 THE WITNESS: Then I can't answer the question.
8 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Are you able to go through
17:38 9 an entire website, a restaurant's website, and remember
10 every single problem that you experienced months later
11 without taking notes?
17:38 12 A. I can't answer the question.
13 Q. Of the 500 lawsuits plus that you have filed,
14 are you able to tell me what problems you experienced
15 with each of the websites of these restaurants as you sit
16 here today?
17:39 17 MR. HASHEMI: Objection, vague and compound.
18 THE WITNESS: I can't answer the question.
19 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: What was your answer?
20 A. I don't understand the question. I can't
21 answer the question. I don't know.
22 MR. HASHEMI: You and I can't have a discussion on
23 the record, so you can have -- whatever you say, you're
24 going to have to say it loud so that the court
25 reporter --
137
.
1 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
17:40 2 MR. HASHEMI: Okay.
3 Q. BY MR. SAHELIAN: Can you name right now the
4 50 businesses whose websites you've gone back to verify
5 for compliance?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Can you name any of them?
8 A. Not off the top of my head, no.
17:40 9 Q. What would you have to do to refresh your
10 memory?
11 A. I don't know. I -- just a long day. The
12 deposition's really long. I don't know.
13 Q. You want to take a break and then perhaps you
14 can remember what you'd have to do to be able to tell me
15 which of the 50 restaurants you remember going back and
17:40 16 verifying compliance of their website?
17 A. I don't want to take a break, no, I don't.
18 I'd have to think about it, really think about it.
19 Q. Is there a recording that you've made to
20 yourself of the work that you've done on these websites?
21 A. A recording? No.
17:41 22 Q. Are you able to take notes for yourself on
23 your telephone or anywhere?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. How do you do that?
138
.
1 A. To my phone to take notes.
2 Q. How do you keep notes for yourself if you
3 wanted to on either your phone or your computer? How do
4 you do that?
17:41 5 A. On my computer, I type them to myself.
6 Q. Okay. How do you type?
7 A. I don't understand.
8 Q. Do you use a keyboard?
9 A. I use a separate keyboard, yes.
10 Q. Okay. When you want to take notes on your
11 phone, how do you do that?
12 A. I speak into my phone.
13 Q. All right. So do you have any notes at all of
17:42 14 any of this remediation verification that you've done,
15 any of the compliance verification that you've done?
16 A. No, I have no notes or anything, no.
